I have'nt checked my Target yet but I have heard some people saying that their local Targets are carrying BE.

I actually saw a starter kit for BE at Target, come to think of it ... it was lost in the shuffle where the fragrances are, down on a bottom shelf.

My Target is so ghetto, though ... I'd hope that others would be more organized. If I hadn't looked down for whatever reason, I'd never even have known that this line was there.

If you girls decide to buy BE at Target or other grocery-type stores be aware that it maybe old product. I work for a BE boutique and corporate is trying to track how Target & some HEB stores are getting the products, but the company is not sanctioning this activity. Its kinda like buying salon products @ WalMart or Target...buy at your own risk.

If you girls decide to buy BE at Target or other grocery-type stores be aware that it maybe old product. I work for a BE boutique and corporate is trying to track how Target & some HEB stores are getting the products, but the company is not sanctioning this activity. Its kinda like buying salon products @ WalMart or Target...buy at your own risk.

I've always wondered how retailers get away with this. I've heard these claims for years, and I'm not so sure I always believe them. (However, what Christine says about how the BE was just thrown on the shelf seems to back this up.) I've always thought with hair products that the companies just say that to support the shops who do sell it directly from them.

Of course the same thing is true when you buy at Big Lots, Marshall's, of TJMaxx; we know they are re-sellers. Even the Cosmetics Company Outlets sell old merchandis; they are owned by Lauder, so I guess the risk is tolerable. In other words, companies seem to be speaking out of both sides of their mouths on this, IMO.

Wow, that's really interesting. I didn't notice any BE at my Target when I went a week or so ago, but I wonder if it'll show up.

Really, that's interesting. I haven't seen any BE at the Target I go to, but they're going through a revamp right now, so they might still get it. I didn't know about taking those precautions though, so I'll keep that in mind.

I've always wondered how retailers get away with this. I've heard these claims for years, and I'm not so sure I always believe them. (However, what Christine says about how the BE was just thrown on the shelf seems to back this up.) I've always thought with hair products that the companies just say that to support the shops who do sell it directly from them.

Of course the same thing is true when you buy at Big Lots, Marshall's, of TJMaxx; we know they are re-sellers. Even the Cosmetics Company Outlets sell old merchandis; they are owned by Lauder, so I guess the risk is tolerable. In other words, companies seem to be speaking out of both sides of their mouths on this, IMO.

Well w/ CCO, Lauder owns those stores so they can keep an eye on the product. I don't think it's so much that the merch there is old age-wise as it is LE or discontinued.

I think there's a difference btwn Big Lots, where you KNOW the product could be old or diverted, and Target, where it might seem that it is "legitimately" there. I don't understand the whole hair products issue though - I mean, BIG stores like Target & Rite Aid have these products on their shelves and I would think that the manufacturers would go after their deep pockets if their product is there and shouldn't be.

Finn, ITA. I can't understand why the companies haven't done just that if it's really not legit. Drug stores have been selling those boutique hair products forever.

Well I remember that about 10 or so years ago, the big name hair product companies got all over the stores for selling their products but now it is very legitamate for them to sell the expensive products...that was all worked out years ago so what you buy at Target etc. is just fine! There are still companies that think they are too good for selling at Target etc...personally I haven't found a d*mn one that's any better than drugstore cheap products, the only difference is the ridiculous prices!:rolleyes:

If you girls decide to buy BE at Target or other grocery-type stores be aware that it maybe old product. I work for a BE boutique and corporate is trying to track how Target & some HEB stores are getting the products, but the company is not sanctioning this activity. Its kinda like buying salon products @ WalMart or Target...buy at your own risk.

My Target is now carrying Bare Escentuals...definitely not a ton of stuff like at Ulta or Sephora, but they have a really cute little endcap with Bare Escentuals stuff on it. And I checked the exp. dates and stuff and it is very new product...not old or expired and it is the current packaging that is available everywhere else. So no worries there! Exactly like what you get at Ulta or wherever, but MUCH more convenient!

Bare Escentuals is currently in litigation with both Target and Costco for illegally obtaining and selling their products. As an official distributor I can attest that stores must be pre-approved to sell BE products and any company without a licensed Esthetician should not be trusted. This is bootleg product and is in no way guaranteed by the company. DO NOT BUY!!!

Bare Escentuals is currently in litigation with both Target and Costco for illegally obtaining and selling their products. As an official distributor I can attest that stores must be pre-approved to sell BE products and any company without a licensed Esthetician should not be trusted. This is bootleg product and is in no way guaranteed by the company. And Salon product sold in drug stores are also bootleg. Often times expired or damaged in the factories and sold off to other countries, it is called diversion and is NOT legal.

Well I remember that about 10 or so years ago, the big name hair product companies got all over the stores for selling their products but now it is very legitamate for them to sell the expensive products...that was all worked out years ago so what you buy at Target etc. is just fine! There are still companies that think they are too good for selling at Target etc...personally I haven't found a d*mn one that's any better than drugstore cheap products, the only difference is the ridiculous prices!:rolleyes:

Its not that its fine, its just that theres really not much the companies can do about it. They are not providing the high end hair care lines to Target, Rite Aid, etc -- they are getting them through the 'grey market'.

That is probably how Target is obtaining BE as well. And OPI (as I have seen at my Target -- though not much of a selection).

Items from the 'grey market' are generally not old and are just fine to purchase however they are just not sold at the intended place of business (i.e salon, spa, etc).

I'd like to know just how stores obtain these products and why it should matter to us if they are not adulterated. Who is "bootlegging" them and just what does that mean? Generally it means they are fake. So are there factories out there making fake makeup and somehow obtaining BE containers?

It's kind of like on eBay. The Mary Kay company had a kitten years ago when people started selling their stuff there. Their legal dept. even went after people. Unless you are a rep of a company and selling product you got free or discards from a counter ther really is't much they can do.

http://texaslawyer.typepad.com/texas_lawyer_blog/2008/01/index.html

Scroll down a bit to read about the suit against Costco.

I'd like to know just how stores obtain these products and why it should matter to us if they are not adulterated. Who is "bootlegging" them and just what does that mean? Generally it means they are fake. So are there factories out there making fake makeup and somehow obtaining BE containers?

It's kind of like on eBay. The Mary Kay company had a kitten years ago when people started selling their stuff there. Their legal dept. even went after people. Unless you are a rep of a company and selling product you got free or discards from a counter ther really is't much they can do.

These products are most likely NOT bootlegged. Bootleg products obviouslly would be fakes -- the BE items are the true items however they did not come directly from BE nor are they being sold in a place of business BE approves of.

They aren't adulterated or tampered with, usually -- they are bought by distributers from various 'sources' within the industries. It could be virtually anyone reselling to these distributors.

The 'grey market' is how drugstores/mass merchandise stores get high end items to their stores. For example: fragrances with the exception of Elizabeth Arden -- they will do business with drugstores on certain fragrances. Meaning their stuff isn't coming from distributors when you get them at Target, Rite Aid, etc. But the rest of the ones you find -- they came from the same channels as those BE items.

Thanks for your explanation, Kristin. Apparently it's one of those distributors that BE is having the legal battle with. I'd certainly like to knwo how it all comes out. There are articles in WWD online, but you havae to subscribe to read them.

Anyone have a view on the ethics involved if one buys products sold under these circumstances? I know companies like to protect their brand image and also want to protect the market for those authorized to sell their items. But do they have the right to do this? On the other hand, is it strictly their problem or should I care?

Thanks for your explanation, Kristin. Apparently it's one of those distributors that BE is having the legal battle with. I'd certainly like to knwo how it all comes out. There are articles in WWD online, but you havae to subscribe to read them.

Anyone have a view on the ethics involved if one buys products sold under these circumstances? I know companies like to protect their brand image and also want to protect the market for those authorized to sell their items. But do they have the right to do this? On the other hand, is it strictly their problem or should I care?

You're welcome :)

This isn't the first time one of these lawsuits have come to light and it won't be the last. I believe last time it was with hair care -- but now you see what happened with that -- high end hair care can be found practically anywhere.

Companies that allow their brands to be sold by certain stores are able to control every aspect of their merchandise: how its sold, how much its sold for, etc. This is why you would never find (for example) a tube of Estee Lauder All-Day Lipstick that differs in that 17.00 price tag. Once you take that items out of the controlled environment and place it in a Target or Rite Aid -- BE, Paul Mitchell loses control of their items -- as that is not who Target or Rite Aid bought that merchandise from, not that BE or Paul Mitchell would sell to them anyway.

I believe that a manufacturer has the right to do what they want with their product and if it means not putting it in a Target -- than Target needs to respect their wishes. We have come to a time in which most people have access to various outlets that carry high end products: Sephora, Ulta, Macys, Dillards, etc. I dont think there is a need for place like Target or Rite Aid to try to obtain these products -- honestly I am not really even sure I would buy something like BE from a place that I know it doesn't belong in.

I used to be a Beauty Advisor at Walgreens (last summer), and a Beauty Advisor at a privately-owned drugstore for 7 years. They sell Nexxus products and a few other "salon-only" lines. I have been to three Walgreens conventions for cosmetics, and a Nexxus rep was at one of them. The products are always legit and in the same condition as the salon products.

No one is sure exactly where the rumors began about drugstore salon products being "off." At least that's what the Nexxus rep told me when I asked her. Now, this is just speaking on behalf of Walgreens and Thrifty White Drug. I don't know what is going on with other mass retailers.

What I gathered from my convo with the Nexxus rep is that some products aren't selling enough in the salons, so they widen their demographic by making it more widely accessible. I would like to believe that that is the true reason we can now buy salon/boutique-quality at our convenient drugstores.

I think it comes down to weather or not a company is an approved carrier of the salon product. The original idea was probably to only offer products in salons so that the customer would have to consult a professional stylist/makeup artist to get the products and so that the big companies could have contracts with the salons. Like my beauty school was a Redken premier salon. That meant we only carried, used and sold Redken brand products. Makes Redken and our beauty school look fancy. Then the big companies realized that not all of the products were selling well in the salons, so they contracted with places like Sephora or drugstores to carry the products that weren't big sellers. Gets the word out about the brand name, but still forces customers to go to the salon to try the entire product line.

Interesting replies. I do "get" the concept, and I suppose I agree that a company has a right to control its product -- to a point. If XYZ salon or other authorized seller closes a store or for some other reason goes out of business, then I guess it has the right to dispose of merch it has in stock in any way it sees fit. (Which is why places like eBay, Big Lots and the dollar stores exist.) In other words, once a mfgr has sold items to a second party, then he has losts control of them unless he has a specific agreement with that party. I guess that's what BE feels has been violated.

I just wanted to add that Target (and I noticed CVS yesterday) are selling Bumble & Bumble. I remember when I had such a hard time finding places that sold B&B.
I'm wondering, with the state of the economy at the moment, companies might be desperate to get their products sold in any way possible.

If XYZ salon or other authorized seller closes a store or for some other reason goes out of business, then I guess it has the right to dispose of merch it has in stock in any way it sees fit. (Which is why places like eBay, Big Lots and the dollar stores exist.) In other words, once a mfgr has sold items to a second party, then he has losts control of them unless he has a specific agreement with that party. I agree. The manufacturer may have an agreement with the salon but once an individual buys the product from the salon, the individual has a right to sell the product to whom ever they wish.

I
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I agree. The manufacturer may have an agreement with the salon but once an individual buys the product from the salon, the individual has a right to sell the product to whom ever they wish.

Do you also think that once a company has bought product from a producer it has the right to sell it to anyone, and at any price it needs to? I wonder if those things are spelled out in agreements between mfgrers & retailers.

High end cosmetics, OTOH, are usually price controlled in the US in a slightly different way. The counters for particular brands employ the sales people, but they also work for the store. Companies set the prices and store coupons do not apply to cosmetics. They are almomst a concession, but not exactly. However, I do remember when a department store in the DSC area went out of business, it sold off its Erno Lazlo(and other lines, presumably) dirt cheap. That's also how those brands get to Marshall's and TJMaxx. But I don't seem to be making much sense, so I guess I should just shut up.

Do you also think that once a company has bought product from a producer it has the right to sell it to anyone, and at any price it needs to? I wonder if those things are spelled out in agreements between mfgrers & retailers. I think so. I guess it all depends on the sales agreement. Not sure. I'm sure there's some kind of contract created with companies and producers of products as far as how and how much to sell their products for.

I used to be a Beauty Advisor at Walgreens (last summer), and a Beauty Advisor at a privately-owned drugstore for 7 years. They sell Nexxus products and a few other "salon-only" lines. I have been to three Walgreens conventions for cosmetics, and a Nexxus rep was at one of them. The products are always legit and in the same condition as the salon products.

No one is sure exactly where the rumors began about drugstore salon products being "off." At least that's what the Nexxus rep told me when I asked her. Now, this is just speaking on behalf of Walgreens and Thrifty White Drug. I don't know what is going on with other mass retailers.

What I gathered from my convo with the Nexxus rep is that some products aren't selling enough in the salons, so they widen their demographic by making it more widely accessible. I would like to believe that that is the true reason we can now buy salon/boutique-quality at our convenient drugstores.

I was under the impression that Nexxus had changed their focus and taken their products completely out of salons.

There was apparently a suit years ago about EL & other colognes being sold in drugstores but I've never been able to find it online.

The lines have just blurred so much over the past 10-15 years - it used to be you would never see certain products at certain stores, a store was either high end or low end, etc. Now you have places like Ulta that has everything across the board - legally! - and Target w/ designer names, and some dept stores almost going downscale to keep customers. It's no wonder everyone is confused.

I saw those the other day, and wondered if there was going to be the same problems as with salon hair products.

I totally understand the legalities behind the fighting, but what irks me is how the makeup/haircare companies start these tall tales about how its dangerous to buy the products from unauthorized businesses---unsafe, contaminated, old, watered down products. I do understand why they don't want the public to buy from Target or CVS, but it has nothing to do with our health, so enough with the scare tactics.

I saw those the other day, and wondered if there was going to be the same problems as with salon hair products.

I totally understand the legalities behind the fighting, but what irks me is how the makeup/haircare companies start these tall tales about how its dangerous to buy the products from unauthorized businesses---unsafe, contaminated, old, watered down products. I do understand why they don't want the public to buy from Target or CVS, but it has nothing to do with our health, so enough with the scare tactics.

I couldn't agree more!!! And now that I've actually seen the Target display of BE, I can't believe it's not authorized. It has marketing, and is very neat, and the prices are about the same as they are wherever else BE is sold.